How do you save your stack against small set?

I've run into small pairs hitting sets on the flop when I've had AA or KK several times this week. Each time the action followed a similar pattern. Each time the villain limped and call my raise that was 4-5X the BB. Each time I had position on the villain and each time the villain checked I bet 3/4 to a full pot bet on the flop and the villain made a minimum raise. There were no flushes or straights on the board. I pushed and found my self against a small pair that had hit its set. I play mostly freerolls and a rare small buy-in tourney. Does the betting pattern always signify a set? I hate paying off to set but I'm concerned that if I routinely fold in this situation I will be folding the best hand. I would appreciate your experinces and opinions.

[pastieman]

This is a common problem, this is the art of Poker, most players limp into un raised/small raised pots with small pairs to see a flop, if you hit a set on the flop woohoo, and even better if someones has an over pair to the board betting.( You were perfect for this with holding over pairs) Allow the opponent to do the betting if possible, (as you did and would be expected), and then the cruncher, the re raise after the river when your set is secure, it's that easy. Any pair is worth a flop if the price is right.
Hope this helps explain that move.
Only my opinion

Originally Posted by pastieman

This is a common problem, this is the art of Poker, most players limp into un raised/small raised pots with small pairs to see a flop, if you hit a set on the flop woohoo, and even better if someones has an over pair to the board betting.( You were perfect for this with holding over pairs) Allow the opponent to do the betting if possible, (as you did and would be expected), and then the cruncher, the re raise after the river when your set is secure, it's that easy. Any pair is worth a flop if the price is right.
Hope this helps explain that move.
Only my opinion

Thanks for your input. I've used the same move many times when I have hit sets. Maybe I wasn't clear with my post but, the problem I'm trying to fix is how to play the over pair. Because limiting your losses is nearly the same as winning chips. This is why folding is such an important part of poker.

[pastieman]

This is how I sometimes play AA KK, raise BB x 4, if I get raised I push, if I get called I would ask a question with a flop bet, he calls, a little alarm bell goes off !!!! bet the turn and ask a question, but if he calls the bet alarms bells are ringing and a slow played small pp, hit set, must come into my evaluations of what are possibles for him. Now the hard bit, I have position on him on the river, so you know what he's doing before I make a play, if he checks what value is there in the river bet, none at all. The set is waiting for my bet to re raise. I'd check it and stay alive, take the hit and move on to fight back. That's how I would play that type of hand.

I think where you are going wrong is in the betting, allin after a flop with an over pair is a very dangerous play, but playable if very short stacked, consider a smaller bet on the flop and see what reaction you get, if it's a re raise you can get away from it and live to carry on.
It sounds like you play with aggression with AA KK so I would have thought you'd have pushed pre flop, not raise 4-5xBB and allow a player in, if blinds are big enough that is. It's a chance you take when slow playing big pp, and we all do it.

Originally Posted by BigBelle

I've run into small pairs hitting sets on the flop when I've had AA or KK several times this week. Each time the action followed a similar pattern. Each time the villain limped and call my raise that was 4-5X the BB. Each time I had position on the villain and each time the villain checked I bet 3/4 to a full pot bet on the flop and the villain made a minimum raise. There were no flushes or straights on the board. I pushed and found my self against a small pair that had hit its set. I play mostly freerolls and a rare small buy-in tourney. Does the betting pattern always signify a set? I hate paying off to set but I'm concerned that if I routinely fold in this situation I will be folding the best hand. I would appreciate your experinces and opinions.

Hi BigBelle,
in my opinion your push is correct..villian will call on dry boards with toppair and overpairs..but thats poker you will run also in sets, but i think especially in freerolls or small buy-in tournaments your push is +ev. On that stakes i would push with AA/KK on dry boards without thinking...but on higher stakes i wouldn't like to risk my stack with only toppair and would fold it after to much action.

[illphillllllll]

i think there is nothing you can do in your situation, it happens. if you are in a cash game with alot of chips and there is raising and reraising after every street then you might be able to get the feel for the set. very hard to put someone on a set unless your getting alot of information somehow, someway.

There aren't a magic formula to detect a set.
You must use the reads (and stats) that you have from him + trying always to control the pot growth.

A push there is a good move?
Again... depends of the villain. If you are playing against a passive player that fold frequently to CBet and raise a CBet very few times probably your hand isn't good enough.
If you are playing against a maniac with a high CBet raise % then is an easy shove.

In a FR probably you don't know anything about the villain (or so few), so a shove is probably the most common move.